r/AskReddit • u/BeautifulMusk • Jan 27 '23
What is it going to take for you to buy an EV?
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u/nsmith0723 Jan 27 '23
An extra $30-40k
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u/WolfThick Jan 27 '23
Yeah price for me as well I wonder what they used EV market's going to look like in 10 years.
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u/nsmith0723 Jan 27 '23
It will be interesting to see how long some of the new batteries last. I find Tesla's million mile battery claim hard to believe considering how fast they charge them, but its also a big ass battery so we'll find out I guess
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Jan 27 '23
considering how fast they charge them
Trick is that the vast majority of normal use charging is not DC fast charging. Its home charging over 6 hours.
If you exclusively fast charge it's going to degrade faster.
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u/xylopyrography Jan 27 '23
If you fast charge too much you will degrade faster.
User reported data from 2017-era batteries showed a degradation average of 10% over 300 000 km, but there is a large spread. Degradation seems to slow down after that in a bathtub curve.
There are a few unfortunate failures but the 8 year warranty really helps with this.
Individual cells definitely would hit a million km (probably not miles) on average if treated correctly, the issue is that everything up the chain necessarily won't and that may result in 20-30% degradation as cells start to fail which may not be acceptable.
Regardless they were already outlasting combustion engines 2 technology cycles ago and most people will never be able to drive anywhere near enough to actually mileout the battery.
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u/digitydigitydoo Jan 27 '23
Isn’t the answer a big sack of money for just about all of us? Big sack of money and I can go very very green.
Pun not (originally) intended.
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u/Thunderhorse74 Jan 27 '23
Cynical me thinks there is a fair amount of opportunists inserting themselves into the equation to make a buck off people wanting to adopt green technologies in various aspects of their lives.
You hear about all sorts of subsidies and grants for paying for residential solar but I have yet to find anything that doesn't include a massive capital expenditure on my part (relatively massive, anyway) and I am actively trying to go green/sustainable because I moved to a small farm last January.
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u/Double_crossby Jan 27 '23
I currently drive a crumbling old Nissan Titan truck and I could barely even afford it. It guzzles gas and needs fixes beyond my abilities, and it's my only option to transport tools and commute for work.
I'd buy an EV truck in a heartbeat if I could. The gas money saving alone is enough for me, but it's priced for people who (in my opinion) don't really need to save that money? There's zero chance I can afford one, much less a used one.
TLDR: I agree. Either I need a ton more cash laying around or they need to become severely more affordable.
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u/KristerBC Jan 27 '23
Have you looked into a used E-NV200? Depending on the range needs, they go for quite cheap.
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u/ellasaurusrex Jan 27 '23
This. I find it funny that there seems to be this idea that people need to be convinced somehow. I think there are plenty of people who would jump on the EV train if they could afford to, it's just not an option. It's not some ethical dilemma for most people I know, it's literally $$$.
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u/UninvitedVampire Jan 27 '23
Same. Like if I had the money, shit yeah I’d buy an EV and save some money on gas. It would be nice to have a new car. (Those batteries sound like they’re a nightmare on finances to replace though)
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u/nunyabidnesz Jan 27 '23
If you buy a used one they are significantly cheaper. we picked one up for 6k$US.
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u/LobstahLarry Jan 27 '23
The new Chevy Equinox EV starts at 30k. Looks like Tesla is finally getting a run for its money from it's competitors.
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u/wdapp33 Jan 27 '23
I not really a huge Chevy fan but If they can put out vehicles at the price they are claiming by 2025 I’ll be pretty excited
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u/Seawolf87 Jan 27 '23
Keep in mind that while they are expensive due to high demand and constricted supply right now, they will most likely end up more expensive than ICE vehicles long term simply because they require less maintenance. Manufacturers know this and will push to keep the price up with the argument that "over the lifetime of the vehicle it's slightly cheaper than ICE". We need to push manufacturers for cheaper versions that still have the range and charging capacity but without all the extra gimmicks they're adding now to justify the $50-60k price tags.
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u/Mobile-Mister Jan 27 '23
A more realistic price tag.
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Jan 27 '23
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u/bobbejaans Jan 27 '23
Can't afford one of those either.
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u/ReelBadJoke Jan 27 '23
Oh Lord won't you buy me a Honda Accord; Mercedes insurance I cannot afford.....
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u/No-Article4137 Jan 27 '23
Too poor for a nice car, too good for a Ford.
Oh Lord woncha buy me a Honda Accord
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u/Pandaburn Jan 27 '23
Bro did you just come up with this? This is gold
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u/demoldbones Jan 27 '23
The cheapest brand new EV (in the US) is a Chevy Bolt @ US$26,500. The cheapest ICE car available is a Mitsubishi Mirage at approx. $17,600
$10k isn't exactly "comparable" - it's often the price difference between the base model & "mid range" model of most other cars.
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u/throwaway91310-51610 Jan 27 '23
Not if you're the kind of person who buys 10-20 year old used cars with cash. Its frustrating because I want one but it's doesn't make economic sense for me.
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u/agreeingstorm9 Jan 27 '23
I'm like you. I found a Nissan Leaf for like $6-7k which seemed like a decent buy until I found out the range on it was like 60 miles. What was I supposed to do if I needed to take a road trip? Just rent a car? What if I needed to run an errand to the next town over? Rent a car again? It just made no sense when there were plenty of gas cars in the same price range that had none of these problems.
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u/Tsivqdans96 Jan 27 '23
Not true though, you're getting way less equipment and luxuries in an EV with the same price as a ICE vehicle.
At my old workplace I literally tested and documented cars for a living so I have a good bit of experience with these things.
For example I have tested out a slightly used VW ID.4 that was going to be sold for about $54K and that car was super basic. It had manually adjustable cloth seats with no ventilation, no steering wheel heater, manually operated boot lid, no backup camera and on and on.
I have also tested a slightly used Mercedes E300de of the latest model and that car had everything the VW lacked and then some, including Mercedes' amazing self driving tech, heated/ventilated leather seats with massage, 360° 3D parking camera, basically all the bells and whistles you can imagine. The price for the Mercedes? $46K.
So the base model ID.4 was $8,000 more expensive than the fully equipped E300 which is not even a pure ICE car; it's a Plug-in hybrid! And you should also bear in mind that Mercedes is a luxury brand with a naturally higher price tag, and VW is not.
Please don't get me wrong though, I'm definitely not some kind of opponent of electric cars that just love to hate on them for w/e reason. I actually love them and would want one for myself, but the price tag is a major drawback because the technology is still relatively young and they're expensive to produce.
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u/catboy_supremacist Jan 27 '23
For starters, my current car breaking down. I'm not going to buy a new car while I have a paid off car that runs perfectly fine.
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u/Ilikepancakes87 Jan 27 '23
This is also me. My next car will be an EV for sure, but that likely won’t be for a handful of years, during which my hope is that they become more affordable and the infrastructure needed to support it continues to grow.
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u/demoldbones Jan 27 '23
This is where I'm at, too. Just bought a brand new Subaru Forester. I intend to drive it for at least 8-10 years and my plan is that by the time I want a new car that EVs are significantly cheaper and easier to maintain in terms of charging infrastructure & range on roadtrips. I can take my Forester on the 770km road trip from where I live to my home town and stop once for petrol & snacks... I want an EV where I can drive the same way and only have to stop once.
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u/JumpUpHitDown Jan 27 '23
I'm leasing a car now, probably will lease my next one too. Once that lease ends, I'm hoping the EV market will be cheaper and have faster/more charging options
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u/Temporary-Tie-233 Jan 27 '23
Keeping your current car is one of the greenest things you can do. Treating our autos as disposable got us into this mess, continuing to do so won't get us out of it.
My '12 Mazda 3 is reliable and sips gas. I intend to drive it until the wheels fall off, slap some new ones on, and keep driving it.
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u/LA_Dynamo Jan 27 '23
This 100%. Even if EVs were only $15k with a range of 500 miles and a charge time of 5 minutes, I still wouldn’t buy one while I have a working car that I have paid off.
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u/Aminar14 Jan 27 '23
That one I'd do. I spend so much on gas that I'd be saving money with the ~&300 car payment.
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u/mad-0-6 Jan 27 '23
And surprisingly that is the most more ecological way to do.
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u/catboy_supremacist Jan 27 '23
It's not that surprising to me, constructing a car seems like something that consumes a ton of resources.
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u/fourtyseven Jan 27 '23
I have a 10 year old Accord so I'll probably be driving it until 2060.
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u/Fighting_Patriarchy Jan 27 '23
Same here. Apparently it's a smaller carbon footprint to continue owning our cars until they die vs. buying a new electric car.
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u/slash_networkboy Jan 27 '23
Biggest carbon footprint of *any* car is it's manufacture. Buying used is always better for the environment (though depending on repair bills maybe not the wallet).
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u/TroggyTroglodyte Jan 28 '23
The EPA doesn't seem to agree with you. See myth 2:
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth2
Lifetime GHG emissions (Carbon footprint) is less than 1/2 for electric and manufacturing is a minority contributor. There are MANY circumstances where replacing a used high file consumption vehicle with something newer and more efficient would result in a net GHG reduction.
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u/IT_Chef Jan 27 '23
Yup, I have a 2012 Accord with like 45,000 miles on it.
I am gonna drive this thing into the ground.
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Jan 27 '23 edited 15d ago
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u/Head-Investment-8462 Jan 27 '23
My Honda Pilot just hit 200,000 miles too. I love it so much I might just buy another one lol.
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Jan 27 '23 edited 15d ago
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u/slash_networkboy Jan 27 '23
if my kids scratch it I do not care. That is TRUE luxury.
THIS!!! A million times this!
Having a car that runs well but that you don't need to care about door dings, scratches, and other little stuff is so nice!
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u/Sticky_Quip Jan 27 '23
The boxier version of the pilot before it’s current shape is my all time favorite vehicle. If it weren’t for some lady deciding she always has the right of way, I’d still have mine.
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u/slash_networkboy Jan 27 '23
My ex bought one of these in `13 (AWD Touring spec). It's fallen to pieces on her. Pretty sure some of that was overly deferred maintenance on the AWD system and fluids, but it's bad enough that I'd add those to my avoid list. Maybe the 2wd is more reliable?
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u/PM_ME_WH4TEVER Jan 27 '23
Ours is is in bad shape (body wise) .. dings and scrapes everywhere, it’s coming up 100,000 miles and is a 2012, but I LOVEI it. Drives like a dream and has taken us through all conditions safely.
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u/dj92wa Jan 27 '23
I have a 2014 corolla that I got new and it now has only like 55k miles on it...I barely drive that thing. At the rate I'm going, it'll be 21 more years before I get to 200K miles....AND it's a Corolla, so it'll already last forever just due to make/model! Works well though I guess, since I'll probably live in a shitty apartment forever, and those don't have charging stations or allow for charging with extension cables etc.
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u/LostInSpaceTimeAgain Jan 27 '23
Wife's 2011 pilot is 250,000+ miles, still going strong. Have done nothing except the normal stuff (tires, brakes, oil changes, etc.). Every year for the past three I've said, it's gotta die soon.
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u/Akaya_The_Albeto Jan 27 '23
Infrastructure to support it which the us doesn't have enough of
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u/Ok_Whatever_Buddy Jan 27 '23
This. I need to be able to take a car on road trips. Until EV charging stations and service are as available in the middle of the US as hybrid and gas are, I'll pass on EV.
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u/IndirectHeat Jan 27 '23
Even when *everyone* is driving electric cars, charging stations will be much less common than gas stations. The reason? Most of us do most of our charging at home. I only use charging stations with my Model 3 when I'm on a road trip. I do 4 of those a year (driving more than 400 miles). I used to fill my tank 1x per week. Now I charge in my driveway 1x per week. I've never used a charging station that was within 100 miles of my home because I can charge at home.
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u/yehoshuaC Jan 27 '23
That's great and all, but unless my Victorian era apartment building, or the 55+ community across the street, or the lofts next door, with no parking for residents, magically constructs charging stations, I'll be stuck sitting in a Walgreens parking lot for 6 hours waiting for a charge. I live in the largest city, in the largest county, in my state and we have 1 Telsa supercharging station (25 minutes from downtown) and 1 Electrify America charging station (across states lines and 15 minutes from downtown).
Much of the US doesn't have garages, much less driveways, or even reserved parking. Charging stations will need to replace gas stations if the adoption level for EVs is meant to overtake ICE vehicles.
The "just charge at home" problem just gets added to the list of issues next to the price and availability (of vehicles and parts).
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u/mariathecrow Jan 27 '23
This is going to be the biggest hurdle switching people over to EVs. The building I live in is over a hundred years old. And while there is a parking lot the chances of it ever getting chargers installed is basically zero. So that leaves me going to the nearest charging station along with everyone else to charge for much longer times than a regular fill up would take. Potentially creating major bottlenecks.
It would almost have to get to the point of on-street charging. Otherwise there needs to be costly retrofits and upgrades to parking lots that most landlords either cannot afford, or will not do because of the cost.
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u/yehoshuaC Jan 27 '23
Don’t need to add more kindling to this fire, but the follow-on infrastructure upgrades needed for the electrical grid to support all this power draw will dwarf the cost of installing chargers.
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u/MtogdenJ Jan 28 '23
When air conditioning became commonplace the grid had to upgrade. With few exceptions, it went fine. Adding EVs is a smaller upgrade than that. It'll be fine.
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u/3catlove Jan 27 '23
This and a cheaper price tag. I live in the Midwest and we drive a lot and I don’t see many places around to charge them.
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Jan 27 '23
Winning the lottery?
Winning an EV in a contest?
Or! Having Elon musk give me on for free
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u/Winter-Protection594 Jan 27 '23
He seems to give away a lot of bitcoin on YouTube, so there’s definitely a chance!
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u/ChadMcThunderChicken Jan 27 '23
As someone living in South Africa where we have regular power outages for at least 4 hours every day…
better electrical infrastructure would be appreciated. That infrastructure should preferably use renewable energy, but I know my country by now.
After that issue is sorted, a way to charge my car in at least every major city.
Then a battery that holds a charge for at least the same time as a regular car can go with a 70% full tank.
performance at least equal to a regular car.
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…most importantly
When I buys the car after we have achieved all this…it shouldn’t cost me my first born child and my entire savings account.
Don’t get me wrong, I like where everything is headed…I just don’t think we’re near where we need to be.
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u/MyNameIsRay Jan 27 '23
Until third party parts are widely available, and local mechanics have the ability to service them, I'm not going to even consider it.
Can't imagine buying something that expensive that can't be worked on, and has obvious planned obsolescence.
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u/Milnoc Jan 27 '23
A single family home. Good luck getting a charger installed in a condo or rental apartment building!
Electric vehicles are still an elitist product, especially considering their incredibly inflated prices.
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u/slash_networkboy Jan 27 '23
Condo... *maaaaaybe*. Rental apartment? yeah, never gonna happen.
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u/anothercynic2112 Jan 28 '23
Within 3-5 years large complexes will install them as incentives for rental.
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u/PaleontologistDry758 Jan 28 '23
Maybe in areas where there's more available apartments than people interested to rent.
EDIT: Nevermind, I just remembered that in cities where rental apartments are in high demand they rarely even come with parking spots anyways
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u/jtbc Jan 27 '23
This. It comes up a couple of times a year in my condo building and the NIMBY's that own the council vote it down. There are some public chargers around the corner, but they are always busy, and I would hate to rely on that in a pinch.
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u/EfficientCorgi Jan 27 '23
ITT: people with 30-40k disposable income trying to convince poorer people that it's cheap to buy
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u/Ill_General8185 Jan 27 '23
This. The amount of people in this thread acting like spending 30-40K on a car is the same as a trip to starbucks is funny.
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u/ImFriendsWithThatGuy Jan 27 '23
Bought a 2018 Hyundai Elantra that was a year old with 7k miles on it and it was above base trim. Paid 15k out the door.
I don’t expect to find that level of deal ever again. But if I can’t find a nearly new vehicle with at least a few nice quality of life features for under 25k then I am not interested.
I use my car to drive to work and the grocery store. I have no desire to pay 40k+ for that.
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u/TheEmbarrassed18 Jan 27 '23
If I had £30-40k to blow on a car, I’m getting a fun hot hatch over an EV.
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u/GuyFromDeathValley Jan 27 '23
as I always say: some people THINK life is easy.
"oh you don't like your job? just get a new one! its easy, you are just looking for excuses".. no, life is not easy. Sure on paper its easy to just sell your car and switch to an EV and save money, but in reality the headache of trying to afford to buy one, let alone to install the necessary charger at home and to plan vacations around it.. its not easy.
But I noticed this trend recently of people being like "its so easy!".. as if everything was easy. It's not. and switching from a combustion engine car to electric is quite the big step that comes with its own problems..
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u/Numerous_Witness_345 Jan 28 '23
Lmao, right?
Like dude I'm not even buying the car i want, I'm buying whatever shitbox I can afford.
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u/danielisbored Jan 27 '23
IKR, every car I've ever owned added together is still not $30k. That said, my current car is a used Chevy Volt and I love it. It's a decade old and finally showing its age, but hopefully I can keep her going long enough for Mazda's EVs to end up on the used market.
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Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 28 '23
Once they become reasonably priced and the miles per charge increase.
I know a lot EV brands advertise 300 miles plus per charge, but that’s if you drive like grandma.
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u/wirelessbrain666 Jan 27 '23
Don’t need 300 mile plus per charge, I live my live a quarter Mile at a time.
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u/snaynay Jan 27 '23
Easy. I live on a 9x5 mile rock. I can only drive like 40 miles tops around the perimeter before I get back to where I started. In reality, most drives are 5 minutes down the road or 15-20 minutes in traffic.
EVs are perfect here! :)
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u/Edwardian Jan 27 '23
Like the Ford F150 lightning, 260 mile range, but if you tow ANYTHING it can be as low as 35 miles....
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u/perez585 Jan 27 '23
More charging locations. Wish the US did the same as Europe and made all manufacturers use the same charger.
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u/DigitalSteven1 Jan 28 '23
The only company that doesn't use SAE J1772 is Tesla. Every other electric car for sale in the US uses this connector. And Tesla is also putting CCS connectors on their supercharger networks (according to them), which is SAE J1772 inlet with 2 DC fast charging pins. This issue that you're talking about, other than Tesla's connector, doesn't exist.
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u/MtogdenJ Jan 28 '23
Tesla hasn't yet opened the network to outside cars. It'll be great when they do. Even after that, some places need more.
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u/ReplacementFluids Jan 27 '23
I know Reddit likes to hate on big trucks, but some of us do need them for moving equipment/making a living. As mentioned previously EVs can’t touch a diesel for towing/payload capacity. I also firmly believe in getting more than five years out of a vehicle, running a ‘99 F-450 7.3 with a six speed….can’t kill it.
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u/justidlingwaiting Jan 27 '23
Exactly. When the dealership gets a used f-250 diesel it's sold without going on the lot. They got a long list of people that want them. An ev is great if all you do is drive to work and back, but I'm keeping my pickup
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u/bryan_jenkins Jan 28 '23
100% this. Replacing diesels and replacing gas vehicles are just different problems that will require different solutions.
That said, a local HVAC company has a fleet of these aftermarket "upfitted" hybrid f250s and they're pretty slick.
https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/xl-hybrids-unveils-hybrid-electric-upfitted-ford-f-250/
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u/MarbleCakes4725
Jan 27 '23
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Everyone's already mentioned the "affordability" reason, so I'm gonna bring-up another major reason that I can't see myself ever willingly buying an electric car.
Make me a simple, right-to-repair EV, that isn't comprised 90% of computers. I'm against electric cars because there are so many extra ways for these corporations to implement some form of "Planned Obsolescence". Gas powered cars are much easier to repair by the average individual, and can last decades if maintained properly (in many cases). I want to buy a car that I can maintain myself, and still be using 25-30 years from now. I GUARANTEE that 95 percent of the EV's made today will have been scrapped by 2035.
It'll be just like light bulbs. When Incandescent light bulbs were on the market, LED light bulbs were advertised as "they will last 15 years without burning out!". However since Incandescent light bulbs were taken off the market, LED lights conveniently stopped lasting as long. I have LED light bulbs from 2008 that are still running, but LED light bulbs I got 3 years ago are starting to fizzle out. We have a chandelier in our dining room with 6 bulbs that we put-in at the same time when we moved 3 years ago. This year, ALL SIX OF THEM had burned-out within the span of 2 weeks. It was almost like it was calculated. This is what I see happening with electric cars.
I'm seeing these electric cars where the whole middle console is a screen, and everything has a whole host of different new "safety sensors", computer functions, SIRI, self-driving systems etc, and All I see is more things to break or malfunction. More to maintain, and it seems like almost all EV's are doing it. Cars are gonna become the next smartphone. Use it for 2 years, until everything starts to break down, and then you get a new one. They talk about these being better for the environment, but how much better for the environment would having to scrap your car every 5 years be. Cars are going from being repairable by a mechanic, to repairable by a fucking computer software engineer, if at all. I hate my smartphone, and wish I could just use some indestructible NOKIA brick that lasts years. I really don't want to see my car go the smartphone route.
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u/coffeetime825 Jan 27 '23
I am all for electric cars (we have the 240v hookup and are looking into eventually installing solar panels to accommodate an electric car if we go for it), but I 100% agree. I rode in a Tesla once and it was cool, but I hated the computer screen. I can handle Android Auto for navigation and entertainment, but I need solid buttons and gauges that aren't connected to computers. And my car needs to be capable of simple fixes.
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u/af_cheddarhead Jan 27 '23
Unfortunately for you even ICE vehicles are turning into one giant computer, that's about the only way to increase the gas mileage.
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u/o0m0o Jan 27 '23
Yeah, this is my main hangup about EVs (cost and already having a paid-off car aside) as well, although I suppose it applies to most new cars (I really wish EV drive train conversions were more economical). They'd probably fit my use pattern better than ICEs (I drive infrequently enough--often a few gallons of gas a month--to be a maintenance concern, and rarely very far), but all the computer integration seems like more points of failure, and relying on a touchscreen for major functions is pretty unappealing.
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u/guy_incognito784 Jan 28 '23
Cars have had those features for well over 10 years.
I’ve yet to hear widespread issues of adaptive cruise control or screens or sensors failing.
As for right to repair, maintaining an EV is substantially cheaper than ICE since there’s no complicated internal combustion engine to maintain.
There’s plenty of downsides to owning an EV vs ICE, but maintenance I dont think is one of them.
EVs have the same electronic systems that control basic and luxury functions that any luxury ICE car would have and in most cases, the hardware and software hold up well. I’ll use BMW as an example, their EV’s use the exact same infotainment system as other modern BMWs (iDrive8).
It remains to be seen if other manufacturers will have their batteries and electric motors last a while. Tesla’s have had many examples of reliable powertrains, problem is their quality and how they treat their FSB.
Claiming everything “breaks down after 2 years” is just uninformed fear mongering and just plain ignorant of any realities of owning and maintaining an EV or a modern ICE car….
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u/halloweenjon Jan 27 '23
In spite of all the bold text, this is a really good point. We've been conditioned by the smartphone market to expect our sleek, sexy, expensive tech products to feel obsolete in a couple of years and to simply replace them. Teslas in particular are marketed very much like driveable smartphones. We have a big problem with consumer electronics and appliance waste as it is. Imagine adding cars to that.
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u/KardalSpindal Jan 27 '23
None of this is a problem unique to EVs, just check out the fight for right to repair with John Deere.
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u/Kirby6365 Jan 28 '23
Have you seen gas cars these days? They're all controlled by computers and have essentially the same problem in terms of opaque repairability, except you also have the additional hassle of dealing with mechanical components in gas vehicles. There's lots of little mechanical stuff that consumers can repair themselves, but there's also a multitude of electronics modules in all cars that basically your only option is scrap and replace.
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u/boredatworkorhome Jan 27 '23
my Volvo is pretty tech heavy with screens everywhere and everything still works great after 4+ years. I think with phones etc it's more the charging, and filling it up with crap that slows them down. I get what you are saying, though.
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u/69bigfluffydog69 Jan 27 '23
This 100%, vehicles are becoming just another appliance to end up in a landfill. I’m hoping hydrogen ICEs will become more affordable, they just seem more sustainable all around.
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u/CandidateNo1172 Jan 27 '23
Dual EV owner here. They're great and a lot of the points in this thread are completely valid.
A major one that needs to be addressed is charging capabilities in apartment complexes. It will hold back a massive amount of people from going electric. An incredible business opportunity for someone out there to crack.
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u/hung_like__podrick Jan 27 '23
My apartments have 6 ChargePoint chargers and it would suck if they didn’t because there are alot of Teslas here
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u/mikemxn Jan 27 '23
Could never afford an EV, so I built an electric motorcycle for around $3.5k it's the bomb, absolutely love it!
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u/AttSvcs Jan 27 '23
It'd need be able to pull 10 tons of hay in the middle of winter (- temps) for a 200 mile round trip.
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u/HenryKringle6000 Jan 27 '23
I bought a new car last year. I looked at the electrics but just to break even on the extra cost of the EV I would have to drive it 250,000 miles. I have never put that many miles on a car.
The fact remains, gas cars are still cheaper. Until that changes they won’t be going anywhere.
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u/astro_scientician Jan 27 '23
The death of my hybrid. 17 yrs old and still under 200k. When it does, hopefully there’ll be even better and even less expensive full ev options for me
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u/Burninator85 Jan 27 '23
Yeah I just ordered a hybrid for this decade.
I'm an EV believer but it's basically still Gen 1 right now. In ten years they're going to have far better battery tech with secured supply chains and a much better understanding of reliability issues.
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u/brock_lee Jan 27 '23
Someone else paying, because I buy my cars used, and I would not likely buy a used EV since the batteries are likely at much lower capacity. And, if I am buying new, someone else is paying.
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u/unwittingprotagonist Jan 27 '23
This! Can I buy one used in decent condition for $8k or less? That's how I've bought cars for the last 20 years, and it works just fine for me. Not going to spend what I consider a house down payment on wheels.
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u/thistooshallpass11 Jan 27 '23
My wife got our first EV ever last August and it's been great. Can't lie
I've been tempted ever since to get one myself and trade in my ICE car. My monthly payments will be lower and I'll get rid of a $200 plus budget for gas using our home charger in the garage.
It's inevitable I think!?
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u/MY22LR Jan 27 '23
Very happy with my EV as well, though disappointed with range drain in cold weather. So many benefits.
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u/thistooshallpass11 Jan 27 '23
I was pleasantly surprised as to how good her EV. She hasn't bought gas obviously but she also hasn't used a super charger either. We charge at home, overnight when the rates are at its lowest.
If someone had told me last year this time that I, myself would be looking into getting an EV I would had told them they were crazy haaa!
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u/IndirectHeat Jan 27 '23
Yeah, when we bought our 3, I thought it would be 10 years before we bought another electric. Three years later, we're looking to trade in our other gas car for a Y. I'll never buy a gas car again.
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u/eclips1st Jan 27 '23
Not all models range drain as much as the others. Worth looking into before anyone buys.
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u/BrinedBrittanica Jan 27 '23
it would have to be free or damn close to it and they’d have to convince my apartment complex to install charging stations at no cost to the renters.
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u/Perfect_Razzmatazz Jan 27 '23
There would also have to be a solution for those who live in cities and park on the street. Just think of how many accessible chargers you'd need for everyone who street parks in a city like Chicago to be able to charge every night.
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u/agreeingstorm9 Jan 27 '23 •
Reasonably certain the city is not gonna pay for all those chargers either. So someone will park their car, pay the charger and someone else will park behind them, unplug the first car and plug the charger into their car with an extension cord and charge for free. If you think this won't happen you've never lived in a city and have never met a person.
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u/ozspook Jan 27 '23
I'd take a Ford Lightning, it would suit me very well, I even have space for a little solar farm.
Just can't justify 60k on a new truck, they need to be 10 -15 years old and beat up a little.
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u/10ton Jan 28 '23
I’d be curious where you can find a Lightning for $60k. In Houston they are a minimum of $90k, up to $115k or more. Which supports your point of not being able to justify it, especially in this car market.
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u/stickman07738 Jan 27 '23
Reliability - when they can last 20 years with reasonable repair cost. Have a 1998 Dodge Ram runs perfect.
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u/Takeapotato Jan 27 '23
Why would I, we're not on renewable energy out here. Is it better for the atmosphere to drive an EV charging off of coal plants? What happens to the battery sled when the car is junk? What are the emissions like at a battery production plant? Is it worth it?
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u/hk96hu Jan 27 '23
Global warming. I drive long distances and battery life for EVs sucks here in the freezing Canadian winters
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u/mrtzjam Jan 27 '23
When EV cars cost less than $15,000 and the replacement battery doesn't cost more than $10,000.
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u/Edwardian Jan 27 '23
Even then, that's about 50 miles less than my Honda Accord, takes 30 extra minutes to refuel, and cost 30% more...
why would I buy this?
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Jan 27 '23
I really want an EV, but paying $35k plus for a compact car is insane. I just can't do it.
And a small side issue. I don't take many long trips, 4 or 5 a year. The idea of bring on the road, finding charging spots, and waiting to charge the car, does not sound fun at all. I don't have range axiety, but if I do not have the ability to drive all day on a single charge when I go on road trips, then I lose interest.
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u/helodriver87 Jan 27 '23
I'd love an electric truck that can match the capabilities of my Tacoma at the price point. Soon as that's available, I'll buy one.
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u/ayyha Jan 27 '23
Even if they were reasonably priced i wouldn’t buy one, I prefer a combustion engine
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u/HanSolovsBobaFett Jan 27 '23
Price for a vehicle isn't a problem.
Once the batteriers are more on a standard. For example, putting a different manufacurers unit in instead of oem.
Replacement is too expensive.
Recycling has to be better as well.
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u/Defiant63 Jan 27 '23
I'll buy an EV for my next car. I hardly leave the city, so charging isn't really an issue for me, and I do believe they are the better choice (or will be when they are viable choices for more people in more places).
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u/Timesmyth Jan 28 '23
I have one. It's great.
I paid $9k for it 6 years ago, have saved at least $1k on gas (likely more since prices are up) every year since I bought it, and have spent basically nothing in maintenance other than tires, wipers, and washer fluid.
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u/mostlygray Jan 28 '23
Cheaper and way to deal with old batteries.
I know it's asking too much, but I'd love to see one without a damn TV in the center console. How about some buttons and knobs?
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u/shootterMc Jan 28 '23
When they can come with 4x4, so Creek crossings without blowing up, travel 600kms and be able to tow 3500kg. Then I would maybe consider them
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Jan 28 '23
-Comparable price with comparable ICE vehicle. Both for purchase price and repair and maintenance costs.
-Ability to charge to 500 miles of range in the amount of time it takes to pump 15 gallons of gasoline
-Ubiquitous availability of charging stations in the same areas as gas stations.
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u/1messeduphuman
Jan 27 '23
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My problem is that they aren’t cleaner to drive in an odd way. We have to strip mine for the components to make the batteries which is devastating to the environment. Then couple that with the fuel for the big machines to strip mine each car is worse than 100 big rigs. Next is the inability to change these cars in extreme cold, or the fact it takes 20 plus gallons of gas/diesel to charge one in the less populate areas. It is also hard to charge them on road trips and makes the road trips considerably longer.
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u/speedyhemi Jan 27 '23
Exactly, I spend maybe 15 mins re-fueling on a 2400km road trip. How long does this take in an EV doing the same distance?
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u/LA_Dynamo Jan 27 '23
Not sure if they are cleaner or not when factoring in strip mines, but they are cleaner for communities and cities.
When Covid hit and no one was driving, LA had some super clean air do to limited ICEs driving around. The same thing could happen if all ICEs were replaced by EVs.
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u/rolotech Jan 27 '23
Or the same thing could happen if cities were designed for walking and had more reliable and clean (both what it runs on and how it is maintained) mass transit. Replacing all ICE with EVs that may or not be much cleaner is not necessarily the answer or at least shouldn't be the only answer
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u/af_cheddarhead Jan 27 '23
Conveniently forgetting the damage to the environment done by drilling for all that oil necessary to keep your ICE vehicle on the road aren't we.
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u/Albs610 Jan 27 '23
A mechanical drill uses less overall energy then strip mining and refining lithium.... I haven't been able to find a good scientific paper on the environmental impact on EVS vs ICE between start to finish. Not a conspiracy theory type of person but that seems like something that should be done and well advertised.
Also, you have to realize EVs use a ton of plastic which is literally from the same oil mines
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u/passcork Jan 27 '23
You don't think we strip mine for all the iron and aluminum in normal cars? And oil?? Fucking look at alberta. It has some of the biggest strip mines in the fucking world to make people's cars go broom. Don't dellude yourself. Electric cars are absolutely objectively better for the environment. And that's not even talking about climate change which is a million times worse than any stripmine.
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u/triplesalmon Jan 27 '23
Owning property ... or significant overall infrastructure improvements of public chargers. Look I would love to get an EV. I don't care about the mileage stuff.
But I rent. With the way real estate has been careening headfirst into corporate hegemony, soon all of us will rent.
What, am I going to pay for a charger to be installed in my landlord's house? What do I do if I live in an apartment? EVs are feasible only for people who have their own house, their own off-street parking and their own ability to install a new charging system.
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u/Mp32pingi25 Jan 27 '23
Needs to be a Pickup. Needs to give me the same range when pulling as my current Pickup. Needs to refuel in 10min or less. Needs to cost about the same amount for all the same features. Needs to actually be more green including making the batteries. Needs to maintain that range in cold climates
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u/AQuietMan Jan 27 '23
A year or two ago, I'd planned to buy a used one in 2025 or 2026, because of the high cost of new ones. I'm not sure that's going to work any more.
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u/Cajundawg Jan 27 '23
- Reduce cost of ownership. EV's need to be able to match current reliability of modern toyotas. 200k-300k miles under general maintenance with few problems. Repair costs and parts also need significant reduction.
- Extend battery mileage. I have to travel 9-10 hours to see family, can be done with 1-2 gas stops. I don't want to stop 5 times for 30 mins-1 hour each time to recharge. Factor here is also family travel.
- An EV truck is pointless until it can haul significant weight for hours at a time without recharge. It's going to be decades before EV's can do what diesels can.
- NONE of the above should be upon the taxpayer to subsidize. Research, maybe, but every end-user tax break just increases the cost of the car by that amount.
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u/TimLordOfBiscuits Jan 27 '23
Owning a home for my own solar setup and the money to buy the vehicle, so essentially a fuckload of money. The prices aren't there yet, and there isn't a regular "economy style" EV out yet, at least not so far as I've seen. Most EV's on the market are treated and sold as more luxury vehicles.
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u/TheRogueMoose Jan 27 '23
WAY better infrastructure, and a house... Living in my apartment I will never be able to charge at home, so it's not worth it.
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u/DissociatedDeveloper Jan 27 '23
TLDR: It comes down to logistics that prevents me from going all electric.
Having the infrastructure and power source that will supply and sustain it no matter where I go in a truly green manor (i.e. it takes oil to make windmills, solar panels, etc. & None of it is recyclable or is to cost prohibitive to recycle).
And/or battery technology needs to get ahead far enough that cold isn't an issue.
Electric hybrids are perfect where I live, because the 1/3 battery pack drop on especially cold nights isn't a big deal. But an all electric car? That can & would become a problem. We also lose power due to extreme weather in cold months... No power, no automotive use.
These are a few of my reasonings...
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u/weird-oh Jan 27 '23
Lower prices.
More chargers.
Faster charging.