r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • Feb 15 '23
Keanu Reeves Says Deepfakes Are Scary, Confirms His Film Contracts Ban Digital Edits to His Acting Article
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/keanu-reeves-slams-deepfakes-film-contract-prevents-digital-edits-1235523698/2.4k
u/ThisizLeon Feb 15 '23
There is a TV show on ITV called Deep Fake Neighbour Wars which features deep fake versions of Chris Rock, Kim Kardashian and Greta Thumberg as everyday citizens that have issues with their neighbours.
I saw the advert the other day and thought what the fuck are we heading towards?
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u/riegspsych325 r/Movies Veteran Feb 15 '23
fucking christ, 30 Rock called this over 15 years ago. The satire in that show was always on point but when they made fun of media bastardization, it’s like they wrote with a crystal ball
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u/ClarkTwain Feb 15 '23
Milf Island was a prophecy
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u/dw796341 Feb 15 '23
I'm waiting for a call from Don Geiss. You think he'll call me Jackie Boy? Then I'll be in Erection Cove.
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u/Chataboutgames Feb 15 '23
Geiss Cubes
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u/dw796341 Feb 15 '23
It means the book is filled with "cubes" of knowledge! It's a good title
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u/theyusedthelamppost Feb 15 '23
don't forget The Running Man dipping their toe in the subject 35 years ago
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u/agravain Feb 15 '23
1981 had Looker
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u/fzammetti Feb 15 '23
I'm upvoting just becauae I wasn't sure anyone but me even knew about that movie!
Looker and Wolfen, peak Albert Finney!
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u/plantbay1428 Feb 15 '23
Before there was Hamilton, there was Jefferson.
Kinda crazy how many things 30 Rock predicted.
I need a full-length version of My Girl Has a Fat Neck (aka my theme song), so I’d be happy if that Tracy Jordan album happens next.
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u/Chataboutgames Feb 15 '23
But we have yet to experience Tracy Jordan's true opus, a Blackfair to Rememblack
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u/LightSpaceSpoon Feb 15 '23 edited Feb 16 '23
I thought it was "Hard to Watch: Based on the Book ‘Stone Cold Bummer by Manipulate’", he won an Oscar for it!
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u/CallMeBigPapaya Feb 15 '23
Really it's just because they're privy to what execs, writers, and producers are pitching on a regular basis. Crazier shit is probably pitched than we even see parodied in 30 rock.
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u/Streets-Ahead- Feb 15 '23
it’s like they wrote with a crystal ball
This means everyone should stay far away from Mickey Rourke!
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u/riegspsych325 r/Movies Veteran Feb 15 '23
well if you can't stand the heat, get off of Mickey Rourke's sex grill
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u/iConSci Feb 15 '23
There is a dedicated deepfake channel about Keanu as well. They just post shorts of Keanu doing different everyday things and from the comments it seems like half the people don't even realize it's a deepfake.
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Feb 15 '23
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u/RamenJunkie Feb 15 '23
Do NOT underestimate how stupid like 90% of the population is.
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u/DrArsone Feb 15 '23
Don't know how to break it to you, but the majority of people in those birds aren't real subs are 100% serious. It starts as a harmless joke and then the believers take over.
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Feb 15 '23
How do they even get away with that? I know this is the UK, not the US, but do people not have protections for their image rights?
There was a famous case when Back to the Future 2 used a body double of Crispin Glover instead of paying him and he sued and won because they used his likeness without his permission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crispin_Glover#Fake_Shemp_Lawsuit
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u/Pabus_Alt Feb 15 '23
but do people not have protections for their image rights?
In the UK? No. Not unless they are being misrepresented or having copyright violated.
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u/salt-the-skies Feb 15 '23
Chris Rock, Kim Kardashian and Greta Thumberg as everyday citizens that have issues with their neighbours.
But they're not neighbors nor having issues with their neighbors and the fictional presentation is also without their permission.
That feels like being misrepresented from every angle.
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u/ras344 Feb 15 '23
I'm not an expert on UK law, but I'm guessing it has to be something that's misrepresented as an actual fact, not just an obviously fictional show done for entertainment value.
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u/Vulkan192 Feb 15 '23
Yeah, it’s essentially a high-tech version of Spitting Image. Still a bit creepy though, at least the SI puppets were caricatures.
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u/Myke23 Feb 15 '23
To this end, the show also airs with a disclaimer in it's intro if I'm remembering correctly
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u/PM_artsy_fartsy_nude Feb 15 '23
I think the degree of obviousness is going to be the sticking point, both in the US and the UK. South Park gets away with celebrity impersonations because they're just animated pieces of paper. (Or CG made to look like animated pieces of paper.) Anything that people might interpret as real when they're drunk, or even just plausible, might run afoul of defamation.
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u/Code_Rinzler Feb 15 '23
Parody law essentially. They are parodying the character and not trying to misrepresent them
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u/in-game_sext Feb 15 '23
Chris Rock and a Kardashian? How is this show's inbox not getting big-banged with a singularity of legal notices...
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u/hardy_83 Feb 15 '23
No way a lot of actors now don't have this in their contracts. Some like Reeves were obviously ahead of the curve but after stuff seen, mainly in Star Wars and Disney, I imagine a lot moved to protect their image post mortem.
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u/riegspsych325 r/Movies Veteran Feb 15 '23
I also wonder how many actors do want some digital edits. Seeing the latest Fast X trailer with Vin Diesel’s suspiciously airbrushed face makes me think how egregious some “touch ups” really are
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u/Streets-Ahead- Feb 15 '23
In Fast 9 they were definitely touching up his physique at times. In reality he was getting a bit paunchy.
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u/firezilla898 Feb 15 '23
Y’all aren’t going deep enough.
I was background for a scene in fast 9. Filming the flashback race scene while the main cast was in Europe. But they needed Vin in the scene we were doing. You know what they did?
They got some buff bald guy, put black dots on his face, and had him do the scene. I asked one of the PAs what was happening. They said they were gonna add vin diesel’s face to this dude. Crazy shit.
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u/damienreave Feb 15 '23
That's not deep fake though. They’ll film him in a chair doing the expressions and voice, and paste the face on. So its half legit.
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u/friskylips Feb 15 '23
You're giving me flashbacks of an article in EGM (I think ) that goes something like: "What's that chair doing in here? That's no chair, it's wooden actor Vin Diesel!"
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u/SimpleDan11 Feb 15 '23
That's pretty standard face replacement vfx tbh. Nothing crazy there.
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u/firezilla898 Feb 15 '23
Dang does that happen all the time? I thought it was crazy in the moment
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Feb 15 '23
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u/BeatnikConspiracy Feb 15 '23
First time they did this was Jurassic Park when the girl falls through the ceiling above the raptors.
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u/riegspsych325 r/Movies Veteran Feb 15 '23
there was always rumors Diesel would show up late to set without knowing his line and looking out of shape. They even make him look like a bodybuilder in video games
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u/in-game_sext Feb 15 '23
The vibe I get is that on the work-side of things, Hollywood wishes FF franchise would die already and the guy is a nightmare to maintain. But they can't stay away from the $$$
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u/Darthtypo92 Feb 15 '23
It's probably like the Transformer films with Bay. Pretty easy to write up a half coherent script. Slap a ton of product promos into it from high end cars to cheap computers. Let a few PAs deal with a difficult cast over a few weeks and then have a VFX studio fix everything and cut it all together over a few months and you have a product that's almost broken even in product placements that's marketable worldwide. It's total schlock and hardly high art but it's a stable franchise and breadwinner for studios that don't want to risk losing on Oscar bait or trying to find independent productions that might not pay out. Plus Diesel just needs a passion project thrown his way every few films like Riddick, last witch hunter, and bloodshot to keep him from flexing his EP abilities too much. Just don't let him lose a fight or look smaller than his costars and his happy to not be a drama queen in the press releases.
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u/NotanAlt23 Feb 15 '23
Actors have to torture themselves to look like movies want them.
People see nothing wrong with male actors doing that so I say its better if their unnatural bodies are just cgi.
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u/TaintedLion Feb 15 '23
I remember how Rob McElhenney spent months torturing himself to get ripped for a 10 second joke in It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia.
And to quote him:
"I’m gonna break it down for you, because it’s actually quite simple, and anybody can do this. Anybody on the planet can do this. First thing’s first: if you have job—like a 9-5 job—quit that. Do you like food? Forget about that. Because you’re never going to enjoy anything you eat. Alcohol? Sorry. That’s out. So what you need to do—you have a chef, right? like a personal chef?—make sure the chef makes you a lot of chicken breast. And make sure you keep your caloric intake at a certain level. And as you go to your physician 2-3 times a week—just to monitor all your testosterone levels—because testosterone is important to building muscle.
You’re good friends with the trainer from Magic Mike? Arin Babaian. So you want to give Arin a call. And you want to make sure he’s at your house and takes you to the gym at least twice a day, because you’re gonna want to do your muscle-building in the morning and then your cardio in the afternoon. Now, do you have a family? Like a significant other or kids? Yeah, forget about them. You’re not going to have time to deal with them.
So that’s really all you have to do. And make sure you have a studio pay for the entire thing, because it could become exceptionally expensive. So, I think if you just do all those things, then you too can have an absolutely unrealistic body type, such as me."
And this was AFTER he put on 60 pounds for a 5 season long joke.
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u/Aditya1311 Feb 15 '23
There were many jokes about Mac's fatness, which one? My personal favourite is "stop cultivating and start harvesting"
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u/Shhadowcaster Feb 15 '23
The original comment isn't talking about fat Mac, they're talking about the S15(?) joke where he is ripped for the first time. He takes off his shirt and everyone has no reaction to the fact that he got shredded, they're just like "so what?". Tbf I think they do a couple more quick jokes about it throughout the season (Dennis calls him fat at one point). Fat Mac had a million jokes made about him over many episodes.
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u/TaintedLion Feb 15 '23
That was the whole point of buff Mac. He had spent multiple seasons claiming that he was buff when he was either just skinny or fat, and when he finally did get ripped the gang doesn't give a shit.
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u/inkyblinkypinkysue Feb 15 '23
Have you seen the Scream VI poster? Courtney Cox looks like one of those Star Trek aliens who have to keep stretching their faces. She’s pushing 60 and not a single wrinkle to be found!
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u/riegspsych325 r/Movies Veteran Feb 15 '23
posters are always touched up, but for an entire film is something else. That’s why I mentioned Fast X, Diesel look like he’s got a filter over his face anytime he’s onscreen
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u/lilpumpgroupie Feb 15 '23
There's a detailed documentary out there on YouTube on the process they used to de-age Pacino and DeNiro in The Irishman. I'm guessing they're using the exact same process, with the actor singing off, probably.
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u/Unajustable_Justice Feb 15 '23
And yet there is Sigourney Weaver at age 70 something, no plastic surgery, and looks young enough to play a 14 year old in Avatar 2. Crazy!
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u/Deducticon Feb 15 '23
Oh, touch ups are in every movie, and all actors are likely fine with that aspect.
On Mocking Jay, Jennifer Lawrence was basically dissembled like a car and put back together. Put the (on set) dirt and grime of battle aside (digitally), beautify and lose blemishes, then add back on the dirty roughness in the desired way.
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u/throwtheamiibosaway Feb 15 '23
Touch ups are probably not part of these deepfake / alterations rules. This has been done forever. A beauty-pass. Blurring out some lines in your face. That’s just part of the editing and post production.
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u/BevansDesign Feb 15 '23
But on the flip side of that, how many movie companies will require actors they hire to give up those rights? I read recently about voice actors being required to allow their voices to be duplicated digitally.
Sure you can choose not to take jobs that take away your rights, but when all of the jobs are taking away your rights, what do you do?
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u/OkCandy1970 Feb 15 '23
That's why unions are a good thing. The SAG is actively fighting against deep fake contracts.
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u/hardy_83 Feb 15 '23
Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. New actors might be pressured by powerful studios to give up their own rights to get a job. I suppose that's where the actors Guild would maybe set rules but who knows.
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u/Brendissimo Feb 15 '23
Star Wars reanimating the dead is incredibly creepy.
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Feb 15 '23
Additionally because it wasn't quite good enough, so it landed right in the uncanny valley.
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u/NoiseIsTheCure Feb 15 '23
Yeah it was a brief novelty to see onscreen but still very obvious to our animal brains that evolved specifically to recognize and read faces. Although I won't know how to feel once the tech gets there and suddenly I realize I've been fooled.
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u/locustu Feb 15 '23
I was hoping someone was going to mention this. Seeing that monstrosity of a Peter Cushing puppet (along with Carrie Fisher) struck me as so deeply disrespectful and horrifying with its implications about actor autonomy and authenticity that it really screwed that movie up for me. Same thing in that new Blade Runner movie with the Sean Young-bot. Just why? There was no other way to include these characters without a full-on reveal? If that were the case, I'd rather they recast the part.
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u/Brendissimo Feb 15 '23
At least in BR2049 it was supposed to be a creepy imitation of the original.
Yeah the implications are incredibly disturbing. Hollywood is already hyper-insular in terms of casting - you see the same actors pushed at you over and over and over again, because star power and name recognition sells tickets. I think we are already seeing how the film industry will place such a high premium on star power that many movie stars will never truly die, as their digital corpses will continue starring in films long after their physical bodies have decomposed.
And from a financial perspective, I'm not sure I can blame them, if it means their kids, grandkids, great grandkids, etc. will all be set for life. Fortunes can be squandered, but steady income is harder to mess up.
Doesn't make it any less macabre.
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u/PCBFX Feb 15 '23
In the real world, unless you're already as famous as Keanu reeves... Disney says "sign here to be in the movie and let us do whatever we want, we own you" and If you don't sign they move on to the 10s of thousands of other options who will.
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Feb 15 '23 edited Feb 25 '23
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u/zerosanity Feb 15 '23
The more scary thing is people cannot prove the video is real. Having a video of the act wont be enough.
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u/The5Virtues Feb 15 '23
Yeah, that’s what gets me. Video evidence isn’t going to be video evidence anymore. It’ll have to go through a massive analysis just to prove the video is legitimate, and even if it is proven plenty still won’t believe it.
We’ve entered a world where the things we witness are no longer trustworthy.
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u/LemonHerb Feb 15 '23 edited Feb 15 '23
Single video evidence at least. Lots of situations have multiple people recording it so at least in those situations it will hold up more
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u/cloistered_around Feb 16 '23
They'll just make deepfakes from several angles and upload under different users. There's no escaping it--it's inevitable even if it's not quite here yet.
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u/thegreattober Feb 15 '23
I'm not sure it's possible to the same extent, but I've seen people take apart and prove really well-done photoshops are fake before using some kind of method to tell literal pixels apart that have been changed from the original. Is it wishful thinking the same could be done for deepfake video?
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u/RRM1337 Feb 15 '23
I remember reading that there are ai programs out there or in development that are specifically designed to detect deep fakes.
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Feb 15 '23
Yeah it's total speculation at the minute. The bigger issue we face currently is people not caring to check it something is real. Which happens already.
Of course they can only improve and no doubt we will need to create a technology to certify video is real before they get impossible to detect at some undetermined point, if it ever happens
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u/-_-BanditGirl-_- Feb 15 '23
Can't we encrypt video in ways with sensor and other data including a private key for sensitive footage? Specialized cameras that embed other information which indicates the veracity of the video?
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u/Kinglink Feb 15 '23
You can do something that verifies X video came from X camera. But how do you know that X camera hasn't been tampered with and it's key has been stolen? How do you know that X camera is trustworthy? If I take a video, you have to trust me, and trust my camera. And 99 percent of videos/photos aren't from necessarily trusted source that is at that level. (Do you trust every tiktoker? Every twitter poster, every reddit user?)
All you've done is allow someone to prove a video comes from a specific camera, but unless that camera is fully trustworthy, it won't be enough, especially because we normally don't expect to be able to trace a video back to a camera currently and these keys will likely be available to people who want to access them.
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u/greenskye Feb 15 '23
The first time someone deep fakes a grainy gas station surveillance camera footage of a crime and it goes viral is going to be wild. The sheer uncertainty after that fact will fuel the 'fake news' cycle for ages.
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u/phayke2 Feb 15 '23
Grainy surveillance would be even easier to fool people with too.
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u/CincoQuallity Feb 15 '23
I believe there are companies that are developing anti deepfake technology though, fortunately. It will be able to detect whether or not a video is a deepfake.
What’s interesting is that it’ll basically be a back-and-forth between deepfake and anti deepfake tech, as one constantly tries to outdo the other.
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u/Kinglink Feb 15 '23
A few of these examples have incorrectly flagged real videos as fakes.
Not saying they can't get better, but it's not going to be easy/possible for long.
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u/Corpus76 Feb 15 '23
Society will have to adapt to the idea that photo and video is not hard evidence anymore. It's not that crazy, civilizations have existed for thousands of years without it.
We will need new legislation though, that's for certain.
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u/Valin_Arelius Feb 15 '23
This is why I wear a mustache. If Hollywood can spend millions and still failed to fix the resting CGI face of Cavil's superman...then good luck deep faking my face broom bitches!
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u/123bpd Feb 15 '23
Welp, womankind is doomed
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u/VagrantChrisX Feb 15 '23
there is an entire channel of deep fake Keanu on youtube
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Feb 15 '23
I am glad to be reading this. People think it's actually him on the deepfake account where they dance around. I can't believe people actually think it's him!
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u/billythekid3300 Feb 15 '23
I fully expect all that stuff to turn into the wild wild west eventually where anything goes. I just don't feel like they're going to be able to put that monster back in the cage.
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u/just_a_timetraveller Feb 15 '23
As soon as the right people can get really rich off of it, you will see it explode. Then you will have the only actors who can get parts will also need to agree to sign off their digital versions.
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u/LittleGiantJ Feb 15 '23 edited Feb 15 '23
The fact this is coming from Johnny Silverhand is the cherry on top
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u/rcthetree Feb 15 '23
yeah, after playing some cyberpunk 2077, the current environment definitely feels like we're heading that direction....
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u/GodsChosenSpud Feb 15 '23
You best start believing in cyberpunk dystopias. You’re in one.
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u/My_Opinions_Are_Good Feb 15 '23
Cool dude stays winning.
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u/Metal64Game Feb 15 '23
keanu reeves could announce the sky is blue and I'll be like "HE DOESN'T MISS"
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u/cosmiccoffee9 Feb 15 '23
so what happens when studios do a casting call of 25 Van Diesel-types and averages out their faces to create an AI-generated action star for the next 25 years?
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Feb 15 '23
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u/lessmiserables Feb 15 '23
written 2,500 years ago.
Cool, I was getting that Plato confused with my former manager at Pizza Hut.
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u/rduterte Feb 15 '23
I actually thought that part was hilarious. Keanu is combining these philosophical concepts of free will and epistemology, ending in an almost desparate tone, then the awkward plug for the movie:
“We’re on our knees looking at cave walls and seeing the projections, and we’re not having the chance to look behind us.”
“John Wick Chapter 4” opens in theaters March 24 from Lionsgate.
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u/CitizenKing Feb 15 '23
My mother was trying to tell me she saw Keanu Reeves goofing off and doing a bunch of stupid shit on TikTok. Looked it up and sure enough it was a deepfake. Shit creeps me out.
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u/chartreusemood Feb 16 '23
My mom did the same thing with the same tiktok, I’ve tried to explain to her it’s not him but she refuses to believe it. Just imagine when it’s politicians being deepfaked and boomers still refuse to believe it’s fake.
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u/BlishBlash Feb 15 '23
I think actors should have full rights over their "digital selves" and get the final say-so on any and all use of the technology.
And outside of movies, deepfakes that are passed off as the real person should absolutely be illegal. If defamation doesn't qualify as free speech, then neither should digitally recreating a human being for the purposes of deception. This stuff is only going to get worse, and there are very few (if any) upsides to the technology.
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u/ndenatale Feb 15 '23
Not just actors, everyone should have full rights over their digital selves.
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u/kryptkeeper17 Feb 15 '23
there are very few (if any) upsides to the technology
Going to disagree there. The algorithms used to create deepfakes weren't really intended for that. You should read up on GANs (Generative Adversial Networks) they have other applications besides Deepfake. I pulled this from wiki but feel free to look for others
GANs can improve astronomical images[63] and simulate gravitational lensing for dark matter research.[64][65][66] They were used in 2019 to successfully model the distribution of dark matter in a particular direction in space and to predict the gravitational lensing that will occur.[67][68]
GANs have been proposed as a fast and accurate way of modeling high energy jet formation[69] and modeling showers through calorimeters of high-energy physics experiments.[70][71][72][73] GANs have also been trained to accurately approximate bottlenecks in computationally expensive simulations of particle physics experiments. Applications in the context of present and proposed CERN experiments have demonstrated the potential of these methods for accelerating simulation and/or improving simulation fidelity.[74][75]
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u/coldblade2000 Feb 15 '23
Yep. Face manipulation is just an interesting way to test the technology because the uncanny valley is a hard thing to overcome
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u/Hawkeye_x_Hawkeye Feb 15 '23
I love corridor crew, but it sucks when they downplay the dangers of deep fakes despite bringing attention to how accessible the tech is. They even did deepfakes of Keanu specifically but chalk it up to emerging filmmaking technology that is just being misused. Even if that's true, that still makes it a problem.
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u/FPSXpert Feb 15 '23
I'll give corridor props at least for disclaiming that obviously it was not the actual keanu reeves with them. The part that scares me is what happens when it's used without credit or straight up for malicious purpose. The recent attempt by the Russian government to deepfake a speech as Ukraine president Zelenskyy saying we surrender (which never really happened since it was a deepfake) is a concern.
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u/iwantmybinky Feb 15 '23
He's right. Combine the fact that deepfakes are only going to get better with the other fact that we're getting dumber by the day and it is scary as shit. Especially the impact it'll have on our collective subconscious far from just simply watching and having to determine if it's real. The constant deciphering of real from fake will change us.
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u/Justforthenuews Feb 15 '23
We’re not getting dumber as a society (that I’m aware of, feel free to throw me a link that’ll make me extra sad today) but it definitely feels that way because we can hear everyone now, so a lot of the stuff we used to just not hear are now all out and we can see it constantly.
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u/iwantmybinky Feb 15 '23
Along with hearing everyone comes more influence. It was easier to not get swept up in things when you could only hear those close to you. Feels like it's a lot easier to shift public opinion now. Maybe we're not getting dumber but 9/10 everyday Joe's really feel like they're becoming more ignorant.
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u/jurassic_junkie Feb 15 '23
I do not like the future with such advanced AI and the stress it's going to cause.
I know a majority or reddit thinks it's fine, but it's really not. It's going to be used in awful ways and we'll be too far into the mess to stop it.
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u/-October-31st-Again- Feb 15 '23
Yep. Y'all get it now? AI is fucking pandora's box. You should be afraid.
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u/anarchyreigns Feb 15 '23
I’m not looking forward to the first deepfake of the President telling the world that war has been declared and nuclear bombs have been deployed (in any direction).
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Feb 15 '23
At some point, the dead internet theory will be quite real when deepfakes along with bots outnumber human beings presence online.
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u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor Feb 15 '23 edited Feb 15 '23
Keanu, years ago you put a clause in your contracts saying that your performances couldn’t be manipulated without your say-so. Isn’t that right?
And now someone like Bruce Willis has found himself getting deepfaked into Russian telecom commercials. As an actor, what do you think of deepfakes?
EDIT: Here’s the Bruce Willis commercial